Flat Earth Round Earth Explorer

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There are people who claim the earth is flat, and this philosophy affects all of us in society.

Such a world view is not swayed by evidence, even the evidence you can plainly see with your eyes.

This video is a fair presentation of the theory. I like the premise of her message and thus I feel for those trapped under the false pretense of modern so called science. And I agree, you cannot trust modern science so called any more.

youtu.be/06bvdFK3vVU

Please watch the whole 11 minute presentation and pay attention to the leader "Mark Sargent" and the kindness of the presenter presenting the premise.

(The choice of wording is intentional, as it is the Hebrew way of writing)

Notice when Mark Sargent was presented with this evidence, he said nothing.

No amount of evidence can change a person's world view.

(The camera is high above the water level to reduce refraction of light, also calm water, not sure how far the boat goes out, assume several miles? An experiment to reduce complexity, and allow observation with your own eyes. )

Question: Many people find today science cannot be trusted. It is time we start to trust in the Science of the Scriptures, rather than the traditions and precepts of men.

Isa 29:12 And the "science book" is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

GOD is the Author of true science, but we humans say "I am not learned" so we do what exactly? Ask God to become learned? 

or be taught...?

Isa 29:13 ...taught by the precept of men:

So instead we, the unlearned is taught by traditions and precepts of science, men who rule over us?

Question: Is this wise? Flat earthers would say no.

We would agree with the philosophy, so why arn't we asking GOD for answers to the Science found within Nature? (I suspect the young people today are influenced by the religion of evolution, and thus have come to grow up in it's darkness)

Shalom

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Should we trust our modern science today. The short answer is no.

The Bible says not to after a certain time:-

Re 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

This is a prophecy where a power coming out from where no sea of people were originally, this is the earth, rather than the seas on the earth, so this power has to be the USA, whose pilgrim fathers fled persecution during the Dark Ages.

The response to this is GOD allows an increase in science and knowledge causing a Reformation Age.

(By the way, most Science people during this time, before Evolution spoiled people, were Christian science explorers of God's Nature, people like Isaac Newton for example, who wrote more about God than Gravity)

However this is when the USA was like a Lamb power helping the people with things pertaining to God, in whom we trust.

Sadly the Science of the Dark Ages is catching up once again, the the Lamb like power slowly speaks like a dragon.

Mark Sargent said prophetically the Flat Earth Movement will either usher in a golden age or an age of chaos.

I find such a statement is clearly forecast in the Scriptures right here.


As we approach the final global reset and the One World Order, we will enter the Dark Ages of Science once again, and more and more weird untruths will be imposed upon the people of the world. In the mean time for the last decades the science is more based on traditions and precepts of men, than based on the Nature work of God, revealed by observation.

Do not eat the GMO food modern science says is OK to eat, for this food is an abomination to the LORD who designed food with perfection in mind. Such man made food is not perfection at all, and designed to kill those who eat it.

Do not drink the fluoride and chlorine town water man thinks is safe to drink, for this water in an abomination to the Lord who designed a different water for us to drink.

Do not live as your free will thinks is right in your own eyes, for man's doing is nothing to the Lord. Instead learn to live by faith in His words and allow His powers to do things in you, because you asked for this.

Shalom

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Notice the Bible on the science of the earth:-

Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in (KJV)

Does this mean the heavens above the earth is a literal tent, or like a tent? Part of the problem with readers reading Scriptures is we read with Hellenized thinking, making the literals we read very literal, rather than reading the Scriptures in Hebrew eyes, as similes of function.

Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

Does this literally means the constellations of stars are similes of created sons?

Job 40:15 ¶ Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

The Bible does speak of creating Dinosaurs along with mankind. How else to we understand a literal cedar tree for a tail, an animal that eats grass? By the way all animals were herbivores.

But my point, is how literal should we make the literals? Or is the Hebrew really about similes of function?

How do we ascertain the truth of the words in English? We ask the Bible only to supply us the answers so our senses from our eyes see the words of truth.

These three verses are the noun form, where the action is completed:

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the "chuwg" of heaven.

Pr 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a "chuwg"  upon the face of the depth:

Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the "chuwg" of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

Only three times is the Hebrew word "chuwg" used. OK now let's see the pictures of this word as letters in Ancient Hebrew pictures:-

Strong's 2329 : "The Outside Secure Feet" comes in two forms the verb and the noun forms of action, with the same basic meaning.

Before we check more verses, these pictures are the feet of the Heavenly Father outside of the Home of Heaven....

Only one verse, so let's get the whole context: This is the verb where the action of "chuwg" is incomplete.  So let's consider what the outside feet of the Father means :

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.
9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.
10 He hath "chuwg" the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
12 He "divideth" the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud.

The Hebrew word is "The Head, walks and sees" is a picture of the Father doing things, as Jeff Benner suggests to stir ?

13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath "formed" the crooked serpent.

The Hebrew word is "The outside secure Authority" comes in two actions the verb and the noun, meaning unknown? Jeff Benner suggests "twist/sand" which is different meanings, and cannot be correct. Again the picture is of the Father outside with His Authority doing something? I do not know right now.

14 Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?
(KJV)

I agree with Job, who of His power can understand?

This study is not as easy as I thought.... Please Lord help thy servant to understand, for somethings the Hebrew is shrouded in mysteries.

Hebrew words also come in families and so we can investigate other words using the same letters with additional letters. There is only one other related word, and this word is used only once :-

Isa 44:13 The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the "m@chuwgah" and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.

The context suggests the carpenter is making a line or string form a "circle", so this family of Hebrew words is something about circles?

This is helpful, but not fully complete:

Question: is the earth a circle, or a circle of circles, ie a sphere?

Shalom

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Some further observations:-

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.

How interesting

The Father "halaks" the "Outside the Father walks" of heaven.

The word "halak" is Strong's 1980, "Behold the Person with Authority Palms" is a picture of a person walking with a walking stick of Authority in his palms of his hand.

So this verse is describing the Heavenly Father walking around the heaven....

Does it always mean walk as a circle? no, it doesn't say...

Isa 44:13 The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the "m@chuwgah" and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.

One would have to spend more time here, "walking with a fixed line at one end" would make a circle.

Walking with a plane or rule, would make a straight line or some geometrical line.

It is not obvious that walking in the heavens refers to a spherical walk. Meaning does the Father walk in 3D or 2D across the heavens?



Job 23:9 On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him:

Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end. (KJV)

Job 26:10 He hath "walketh-outside" the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

Let's consider "bounds": "The outside secure unknown" wow.
"the outside Father unknown".

So the shape of this walking outside is unknown, a Q question?

(Hebrew has a letter for things too high for us to understand, called the letter Quph. See Psalm 131:1, 2 )

Is there any other clues?

Ellen White writings do not make any further clues apart from quoting Scripture as the KJV presents it.

Some more observations:

Pr 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a "walking-outside"  upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth

The word commandment is wrong, the Hebrew is pah, "mouth".

So from this context, the walking outside of the waters are decreed by His mouth, and so we can judge the shape of the walking outside of the waters by it's overall shape we see with our eyes.

Question: Is the ocean walking outside in 2D ie: flat or 3D ie: round?

Going on the video in this tread, of a boat on the waters, the waters walk outside in 3D, and thus the shape is a sphere.

Wow this Q question can be solved after all by logic reading of the Scripture.

 Question: how does the ocean walk outside on the earth?

Next time you drop water at your feet, notice the shape of the water outside walking in the air. Large drops fall as a flat blob, but as the droplets get smaller you can see they fall as balls of water, showing you the "outside walk of the water" on the earth. Hope this simple test with our eyes, helps readers understand the science questions the Bible teaches us.

Shalom

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Watching videos can be convincing if the evidence is not presented fairly. Thus the observation can be biased.

Science is about fair presentation of data, even the data you cannot explain. 

Readers will read how difficult it is to show "chuwg" as a word meaning. So I prefer "walking-outside" as the meaning. There is not enough verses to render the word meaning clearly. And I am happy with this study and it's conclusion. I also present the data as I see it. The known and the unknown. True science is about understanding the mysteries of God, and not all things in the Scriptures is known or easy to fathom.

Sadly modern science doesn't do this anymore. Much research is biased and fudged to a certain outcome. I remember in my Agricultural Science days in the big library we have at Armidale, NSW, Australia, where I would look up the discussion and check the graphs for biased presentation, and citations quoted for extra padding, so make a biased finding. This was happening way back in 1980, when we used to do research for research sake. Sadly this does not happen like this anymore, research is done by grants, you have to come up with what the granted money wants from you. So the data is intentionally skewed.

You have to have empathy for flat earth people, because modern science is deceiving us in research fields. The technology of GMO is one for example. GMO food is not safe to eat. Such data presented in 2002 is ignored and forgotten.

Try reading my own investigation on this theme.

spiritualsprings.org/ss-1126.htm

If you watch "flat earth" videos and the like, "they" show boats over the horizon that come into view when you zoom in.... Hard to explain? It is possible to reach the vanishing point and still remain on the flatness of the curvature of the earth? Does anybody talk of this in the video? So when does the curvature of the earth kick in for seeing a boat beyond the horizon? Obviously beyond 6 Kms or so? Between 3 Kms and 6 Kms, you cannot see a boat, but a powerful zoom camera with telescopic lens can.

So why is the data presented unfairly and with bias?

The other stuff is refraction of light. Light bends in some dense or less dense air, so the image may not be what is presented. Fair enough, do lazer beams get affected by bending? What about seeing the boat 10m up a crows nest like the ship sailors used to do? If we are about the walking of the water on the earth, let's present the data fairly.

The video on this thread is the fairest one I have found. Can anybody refute it's simple message ? Something sailors observed for hundreds of years. The Greeks discovered this long ago using simple observation.

Shalom

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Some more stuff on flat earth queries

Flat earth people ask how airplanes do not continuously adjust for altitude flying when flying in straight lines over the earth.

So I did  a little reading and found the explanation is hard to write and fathom, so let's explain it simply for readers:

Over the earth is a fluid called air, and unlike water as a fluid, air as a fluid sinks easily to the bottom thus making more dense air on the bottom of the atmosphere and less dense air on the top of the atmosphere. Why does a fluid do this? Gravity. For those who are flat earth people and do not use gravity in their models of flat earth explaining, please explain why the air pressure is less the higher you go up and more dense air pressure the lower you go down? I have coloured the more dense air in blue and the less dense air in white, this makes a curved pattern because the earth is curved and the air follows the curve of the earth. In fact it is proof the earth is curved as a ball.

 Gravity is a force that pulls from all directions from the centre of it's collective forces, so from the centre of earth, all the forces pull downwards, thus the pulling force is towards the centre of the earth, and this is why the air is also pulled downwards towards the centre, also as a ball. When you pee urine from yourself watch the fall of water as it moves downwards towards your feet. It begins as a flat chaotic blob, flat as flat earth people like the water to fall, but as the water breaks up into small chunks the droplets fall as little balls of water. You can see this with your eyes, and proves the shape of atoms falling through space always pulls together as a ball.

Now when an airplane moves into the air, the pilot chooses a certain speed so the air over the wings lifts the plane to balance the planes weight and the speed remains constant during auto pilot moving. The lift is balanced by the weight and the plane begins a level flight path in a supposed straight line.

As the plane travels forward into less dense air, the wings fail to provide lift so the plane falls down into the more dense air where the more dense air keeps the plane flying at the desired altitude. The plane is automatically falling downward as the plane move forwards into the less dense air and thus moves in a straight line that curves with the more dense air that is also curved with the curve of the earth. The pilot does not have to do anything, nor does the auto pilot mechanism, the plane flies into less dense air all the time and thus is always falling back into the more dense air, that keeps the plane at the desired flying height above the earth.

Should the plane want to fly into less dense air and thus want to make a perfectly straight flight, the speed would have to be accelerating all the time, so the engines would have to be rockets with their own on board oxygen supply and the plane would have to increase speeds from 500 Km/hr to 1500 Km/hr to 10,000 Km/hr. At this speed the air would be so less dense the wings would not be able to lift the plane, so another law of Newton would have to make the plane fly, as a rocket that does not need air for lift. The engine than becomes its own lifting force and the plane rockets off into outer space at speeds over 20,000 Km/hour !

I hope this simple science answer helps some of us learn how science can teach us things about nature. Sure I agree there is corruption by some using science, but not all science is corrupted by all people. Learn to discern your own wisdom and your own science about things in our world. I was a Science Teacher, and not all science is bad or wrong.

Shalom my friends

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Flat earth pictures of the earth are not thought through very well.



Ronald Amundsen traveled over the ice looking for the exact spot of the South Pole. How is this possible on the flat earth model?

Outside of the so called firmament there is no atmosphere, so it would be very cold. In the flat earth theory where does the firmament begin and end? On the edge the South Pole needle would not be pointing to the South pole, so Ronald would keep walking.

He found the exact spot by walking past the pole, than walking past the pole in other direction and than using geometry the exact spot is somewhere in the dissection of many points where you walk. Tell me flat earth people how can Ronald walk over the South Pole if he is only granted to walk on the far edge? 

Quote for Ronald's diary: That day we passed 88ºS, and camped in 88º 9'S. A great surprise awaited us in the tent that evening. I expected to find, as on the previous evening, that the boiling point had fallen somewhat; in other words, that it would show a continued rise of the ground, but to our astonishment this was not so. The water boiled at exactly the same temperature as on the preceding day.... There was great rejoicing among us all when I was able to announce that we had arrived on the top of the plateau.

Getting to 88.9 degrees South, is NOT on the far edge is it? Hard to find info I really wish to read! Sounds like a terrible place to visit.

The flat earth model actually pictured by flat earth people is actually a ball !!

So It would not be possible to walk over this other half of the water ball, as the temperature away from the sun would cause the ball to reach 4 degrees Kelvin, that is too cold for anything to live. So how did Ronald find the exact spot of South walking only on the edge?

So now the flat earth people have a ball shape after all, only one that is cut in half?

With such a shape and the North and South pole as much as only 6000 Kms long, instead of 12,000 Kms we regular people believe. Could the magnetic field and gravity also for that matter, both make a curved firmament of the atmosphere? Hmm? I think this is still possible, so they have not really changed their theory that much?

Gravity and Magnetism are forces that make 3D curved lines of force, so a flat earth model can NEVER exist.

But most assume gravity does not exist? Oh, so what exactly holds the shape of the half water ball together? And how does the firmament hold the gases in? The force required would be enormous?

Shalom

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Flat earth people make a lot of Bible respect which is really admirable.


Ge 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

The Ancient Hebrew pictures for this word "firmament" is "The Head Unknown with Active Hands Sees" seems to be a picture of the Father looking at the Son doing His creation, of some "sheet" placed over the earth, to separate "water" from "water".

Notice:

Ge 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

This suggests to me that earth is floating in a watery universe? Not empty space, as regular science teaches? And this depends upon how we assume "water" to mean? The Ancient science humans called this "fluid" the "ether", and even Einstein says the "ether" is always been there. In fact many experiments prove the "ether" exists, is totally ignored by modern so called science. No wonder the flat earth people seek alternatives.

More Q questions.

Shalom

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Some more fascinating stuff as the flat earth like to read literals in Scripture

Ge 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

What are the Ancient Hebrew pictures comprising the word "earth" ?

These pictures are the "Strong Head Travels" .

For more on letters : spiritualsprings.proboards.com/thread/27/comments-humans-rendering-ancient-pictures

The last letter of the word in Ancient Hebrew is a letter meaning to "travel", so the earth is indeed traveling, is clearly taught in the Scriptures already.

1Ch 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Here is another word "world" and the Ancient Hebrew letters are "Towards an important mark, the Home's Authority"

And the meaning for "moved" is "flowing secure basket" comes in two actions, the verb and the noun.

Jeff Benner suggests this word means "shake/branch" but this is wrong, as the two meaning are too different from each other in terms of actions of function.

Let's try a few verses:

Hmm? hard for readers, so let's assume the KJV version is OK, the word means to be moved.

1Ch 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Is this verse saying the earth shall not move or the world shall not be moved?


Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..." (A poor translation for the Internet?)


Ps 93:1 the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. (again talking about the world, NOT the earth)


Ps 96:10 ¶ Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously. ( again the word here is world, NOT earth)


Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

(Here the word is earth, with the word "moved", so the earth cannot be moved from how the function was established. This is nice, as who wants a "traveling earth" moving off its circuit in space?)

Conclusion: The word 'earth" has a "traveling" picture as one of its letters, so the earth is always moving. The earth moves on a fixed circuit, while the world, does not move, is a picture of the heavenly home and its authority.

I don't mind people reading Scripture literally, but we have to read things as functions or actions, not as Greeks do with descriptions. Shalom