Testimony to Watchman Nee, Witness Lee and Margaret Barber

[Admin]

This website expressly discourages people from joining the Seventh Day Adventist Movement because of things spoken against the SDA movement with bias.We will not get into the negatives here. We suggest you try the treads presented and ask yourself does it work, do you taste the Lord that He is good?


www.gotquestions.org/born-again.html

Notice what this website writes concerning Nicodemus seeking salvation from Jesus and Jesus saying you must be born again.

We quote the whole passage published by this website:

How does the new birth come to be? Ephesians 2:8–9 states, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” When one is saved, he has been born again, spiritually renewed, and is now a child of God by right of that new birth. Faith in Jesus Christ, the One who paid the penalty of sin when He died on the cross, is the means by which one is born again. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

If you have never trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, will you consider the prompting of the Holy Spirit as He speaks to your heart? You need to be born again. Will you pray a prayer of repentance and faith and become a new creation in Christ today? “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God” (John 1:12–13).

Have you made a decision for Christ because of what you have read here? If so, please click on the “I have accepted Christ today” button below.

Rob: Readers will note, the website does not explain the process of the second birth nor does the website understand the Bible verses they quote

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.(KJV)

So let's make some of the Greek words for align with Hebrew, without fuzzy English meanings:

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that "have faith" on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Ancient Hebrew)

Now where does the second birth speak about faith as a process, and since Jesus does not tell us how in the NT, because such a process is already written in His former rains (OT), so not necessary to write it again in His latter rains. Does this website consider the YHWH is the Author of both the former and latter rain? Obviously not.

Ho 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

So if we have a NT as well as an OT, these writings must have come from the same YHWH as mentioned here, and thus this proves the YHWH is Jesus-YHWH. This is something this website fails to grasp.

Notice the faith process of the second birth is indeed literal but must be understood using heavenly terms.

Ps 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. (KJV)

Again the fuzzy translation in English does not show readers that truth is a Hebrew word related to the family of words meaning faith

Ps 51:6 Behold, thou desirest "faith affirming truth" in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. (Ancient Hebrew)

So David's prayer is about having faith in the inwards parts, ie a second birth process is prayed for here.

Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

ROB: "Notice the second birth process does involve the compassion-center of the Holy Spirit and it a creative process, just as the fetus in the first birth of the baby in the compassion-center of a woman is also with nine months of development, the development of the character within a man, is of more importance than one's material construction, because such a development has to be developed by the human asking for development through faith, and thus the second birth takes the whole time man is living in the Lord.  But notice this development is a creative process, because faith is the process of man appropriating God's powers to himself as His works in you.

I would suspect this website considers "faith" as "believe" some concept of "mental assent", is a concept that means nothing to the Lord. Shalom

[Admin]

I quote from the same website concerning a Chinese preacher Witness Lee

"Witness Lee was the protégé of his predecessor, Watchman Nee, a well-known missionary in China. The Local Church movement was founded in China by Nee and brought to America in 1962 by Witness Lee. Thus began a long and strange saga of charges, counter-charges, lawsuits, strife, and misunderstandings between the Local Church movement and the evangelical community that has left much wreckage in its wake, and has yet to be fully resolved. "

Witness Lee was the product of missionary work by Watchman Nee.

Both have writings in Ministry Samples.org

"For one thing, Lee’s method of teaching—to make radical statements and then balance them elsewhere in his teachings—proved to be antithetical to the Western idea of “say what you mean and mean what you say.” Lee’s doctrinal statements on the nature of God and the nature of man are perfect examples. In one of his messages, he states, “The traditional explanation of the Trinity is grossly inadequate and borders on tritheism” (Life Messages, p. 164). Naturally, this is enough to inflame Western evangelicals, who proudly affirm the doctrine of the Trinity as it has been passed down from the great theologians of our Western Christian heritage. To judge it to be “grossly inadequate” by Lee raised legitimate concerns about Lee himself. Closer scrutiny of Lee’s teachings elsewhere, however, brings to light that they actually agree with evangelical orthodoxy.

ROB: Like Isaac Newton, the word "trinity" is a invented term by man, not a written term by God in His Hebrew, therefore should not be used. We would have to agree with Witness Lee.

The same can be said of his teachings on the nature of man. Some of his most inflammatory statements are in regard to what appears, on the surface, to assert the deity of man. In an LSM publication, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing (p. 54), Lee states, ”My burden is to show you clearly that God’s economy and plan is to make Himself man and to make us, His created beings, God.” On page 53 we read, “We are born of God; hence, in this sense, we are God.” In the same publication, Lee refers to the Triune God as now the ‘four-in-one’ God, with man as the fourth person. Nothing raises a red flag to evangelicals more quickly than any notion that man is God, because we are rightly taught that it is the original lie from the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:5) and is the same lie propagated by cults and false religions such as Hinduism, New Age, and Mormonism throughout history.

ROB: Hmm? We will say more about Witness Lee, even though his writings are interesting. What does the Bible say when Jews claimed Jesus was presenting Himself as both a man and a God?

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

What does the Hebrew verse say in Hebrew?

Ps 82:6 ¶ I have said, Ye are gods "elohiym" ; and all of you are children of the most High.

How did mankind become an elohiym power? Through sin

Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

So the definition of a Elohiym as a family power, is knowing both function and dysfunction.

Part of Witness Lee problems, might be cultural, understanding the cultural presentation of his experience in the Lord Jesus, one should not take that experience away, just because it clashed with Western Culture. I too have social and emotional clashes with people too, because we are not all the same and our talents from the Lord are different. Sometimes we need to be more humble of one another and look out for our brothers and see the functional in them. Leave the thorns on a rose bush alone and gather the pinks instead. Shalom

[Admin]

A testimony to Margaret E Barber, a missionary from Britian to China, helping greatly the Chinese man Watchman Nee, who became the major influence of Witness Lee, who founded the Local Churches movement throughout Church.

God bless the missionaries that take His gospel to other lands:-


The Breath of Prayer”

Fan them with the breath of prayer
‘Tis God’s word to thee;
Thresher of the mountains, thou,
Take the victory.

Fan them with the breath of prayer,
Mountains though they be;
And God's wind the heights shall tear,
Scattering them for thee.

Fan them with the breath of prayer;
E'en the hills shall be
But as chaff, as thou dost dare,
Order them to flee.

Fan them with the breath of prayer
Born at Calvary;
Thresh the mountains in His Name,
Claim His Victory.

[Admin]

The work of missionaries is a child like attempt to share their faith in God with others.

It is not necessary to know all things of faith, to experience child like faith, for even a child can understand faith.

Indeed GOD rescues us "in a momentary fitness of salvation" as a firebrand plucked from the fire, is a precious promise on mine. It shows how easy it is to be saved by GOD even if you do not fully understand "what is it"? The Faith process.

Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto "the Opposer", The LORD rebuke thee, O "Opposer"; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Many claim this Opposer is some attorney function angel doing the bad job of convicting humans of sin, is a terrible abomination indeed.

First no angel however clever is capable of knowing the sins of any human, because most of the ones we see are transgressions of the royal law and not breaking of faith, which is the missing of God's powers within the free will of the mind. Hence no angel can see within the free will of the human mind and discern the decisions of surrendering to a Divine Power, but Jesus can and does. He is our Attorney and our Saviour.

Only God can discern the causal reading of His words by a human,  and the human who reads His words, seeking a flow of His Divine power via faith.

Here we see the Opposer trying to oppose the faith process, and failing because only GOD knows His process, deeply hidden...indeed the mystery of salvation rests entirely with our Saviour.

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ

So with the child like experiences, we can thank Jesus can save us, because salvation while it is a touch of faith from Jesus, only Jesus knows those who manage to obtain virtue gone out from Him, not some Opposer pretending to be an assistant or even an accuser of the brethren.

  Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Notice while the Opposer is termed Shad and Serpent, that Saraph being whose outgrowth of his mouth is no longer love, but firey snake poison, He is "cast down" unto the earth among humans, therefore it not required as a process in salvation by Jesus at all. During the OT times this Opposer did have opportunity to visit God in meetings at appointed times, such as Job describes, but since the murder attempt of Jesus on the Cross, this Opposer is "Cast Down" and his doom certain.

Mr 5:30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

So God bless the work of missionaries like Watchman Nee and Witness Lee and even Margaret Barber.

There are numerous others too unnamed here, who  work as Missionaries for the Lord.

Salvation is truly an easy process to experience, and strangely enough most of us spend our entirely lives experiencing it. That is an oxymoron.

Shalom