Methods and Procotols to be saved? Salvation by works?

[Admin]

I have battled with a Gnostic person over salvation from Jesus:

( I will hide somethings from public readers)

Here is the message:

Beginning around 13 minutes into the video she begins to talk about the specific “Protocols” people use to access information from the outside. She talks about these physical protocols as things people learn to do, trained to do; a method to use your brain to access a different mental state to receive information from the outside. Protocols for living ruminant of the ancient Greeks like Plato and Socrates. The perfect union of mind and body; things like sunshine, sleep, exercise, sports, and staying away from people, like monks, because other people slow them down or take them off their game. A perfect union of mind and body to create emergent phenomena. She called it a flow state like a runner’s high, in tune with yourself, yet outside of yourself. They go on to discuss lucid dreaming and dream interpretation.

Have you heard of these protocols before and how it works. The Methodist have a method. Robert tried to teach us his method to increase faith?

This Gnostic person replies:

Robert tried to teach us his method to increase faith?
Robert was looking for a magical shortcut – he spoke of rituals – special prayers to repeat – things to do to gain reward.

Your first clue – scripture says very clearly – belief is all that is required to be saved to eternal life

Robert demands that scripture is error – belief is not the answer according to Robert – the answer lies with the ritual things he does. He has decided that the Hebrew word for FAITH = SUPPORT. If you support Jesus Christ by doing this and that – then Jesus will save you

It is a method of earning your way to heaven
Robert also taught that you can be a good SUPPORTING Christian all your life – but before you die you sin and it all lost – you have lost your salvation.

Most Christian teaches – believe and your saved – and are always saved
Then if you believe – your behavior changes as you begin to SUPPORT the truth by your life
I am saved – I am being saved –and I will be saved

.........

Jesus Christ was a Jew – His Disciples were Jewish – His Followers were Jewish – the very first Christian at Pentecost were all Jews at the Temple - the original followers of Jesus Christ filled the Book of Acts as Pentecostal Messianic Jews - laying on their hands and preaching the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Faith in something other than the truth of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is just error – is just spiritual suicide – and to preach it to others comes with even a higher penalty

Rob replies" I like the way this person describes my faith concept, the Hebrew meaning of faith is indeed about support. However is this a method to earn salvation? No, it is simply the supporter responding to the provider .

Let me ask readers, if God is a Provider of Love, do  you only have to  "believe in this providing love and pray in the Spirit"?

or do you have to respond to the love being provided? 

and if there is no genuine responding to the providing love, than you are not supporting the heavenly Provider at all, are you?

In a relationship what point is there, if you do all the talking during prayer, and perhaps study lots of knowledge about the Provider of Love, but never really respond to that love with support of His power in you?

These protocols, "praying and reading Scripture" don't we all do them? as some religious method? Don't all religious systems have some protocol to bring the outside higher forces into our human mind? Is this really an invention of the Greek like Plato or Socrates, or is the female presenter mocking how all religions work?

Question: Do protocols for communicating to GOD exist in the Scriptures?

Do we pretend they don't exist just because some female person mocks them?

Or some Gnostic person says, all you have to do is believe, whatever that means?

So what does the Scripture say? And I present to readers from the Scroll of Jesus written in the former rains, the OT, before the NT came along. That makes me a Hebrew person doesn't it, or do you mock me because I am not altogether as a modern Jew?

So what does the torah say , and I quote from Jesus-YHWH in the OT, the same YHWH who wrote the NT is clearly expounded here:

Ho 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

So YHWH inspired the OT rain and the NT rain, is the same Author of both the OT and NT. So the OT is clearly the oldest and the most important foundation concerning truth, so we line up the NT with the OT.

So what are the protocols of communion to GOD written in one simple verse?

Ho 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips. (KJV)

When you "take takings with you as words" that is reading the torah to seek and discover "precious promises" in the torah verses as "faith foods". Than after finding these words, we turn to our Jesus-YHWH and "say to Him" is termed "praying" and than the Lord will break open our "mouth head" and our lips will bring forth praise and glory to the Father for Jesus fruits graciously developed in us.

Where does the NT say things in a similar way?

Mt 7:7 ¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

If you go through this NT passage you will find the same protocols to get Jesus into the human mind.

1) Ask certain precious promises (termed take takings as words in the Hosea 14:2)

the word "seek" is another way of describing the "take takings as words" seek what promises you wish to claim

2) when you ask, you speak, and this is logically to pray for this asking.

==============

This Gnostic Christian person says "Robert also taught that you can be a good SUPPORTING Christian all your life – but before you die you sin and it all lost – you have lost your salvation."

Rob replies" The Scriptures speak of a "sin-offering" not unto death. Scriptures also say to "work out you own salvation with fear and trembling". Not all missing means you lose your salvation, is clearly presented in Johns letters. Salvation is based on faith, on supporting Jesus daily and His powers in you. So salvation is a relationship protocol and is not as the Gnostic Christian says, easily destroyed by minor missings.

More to the point, notice John's claim here

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (KJV)

This King James is translated into English correctly, but notice the challenge to supporters of Jesus. If we genuinely abide in Jesus, there is no missing of His powers in our life.

How can that be? Because when you ask for a "precious promise" you are asking for His power to empower you, hence as long as you do not doubt the promise, the assurance of power is guaranteed and you cannot sin during this process. Missing His power only happens when fighting the good fight of faith, we forget to ask.

For more on this see spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htm

Shalom

[Admin]

This person says, speaking falsely of my own process of salvation in Jesus:" If you support Jesus Christ by doing this and that – then Jesus will save you"

Rob replies: "This is Cain's method of salvation, doing things for the Lord, your way, what is right in your eyes.

When you have genuine faith in Jesus, you are not doing things for the Lord, the Lord is doing things through you because you asked for this power of doing.

I like the way A. T. Jones says it

A.T. Jones: "This is justification by faith alone. This is justification by faith, without works. For the faith being the gift of God, coming by the word of God, and itself working in man the works of God, needs none of the work of sinful man to make it good and acceptable to God. The faith itself works in man that which is good, and is sufficient of itself to fill all the life with the goodness of God, and needs not the imperfect effort of sinful man to make it meritorious. This faith gives to man good works, instead of being itself dependent upon man for “good works.” It is not expressed by “faith and works;” but by “faith which works,” “for in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love” (Gal. 5:6). “Seest thou how faith wrought?” (Jas. 2:22).

ROB: The way A. T. Jones explains this "Faith that works" is well said, and confirms my understanding of faith is the same as my pioneer who wrote this about 130 years ago.

Faith is a tool by which supporters of Jesus can demonstrate support to Jesus, and thus the love provided is genuinely responded to, by the supporter.

La 3:22 It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. 23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness "supportiveness".

Question: How does GOD show faith every morning? What does this mean? It has to mean GOD is supporting us, providing for us, waiting for us humans to respond to His love? How do we respond? By supporting God back, by speaking His words so we get this faith food that supports us.

Faith is a simile of food.

Ex 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

This bread which Israel said "what is it" was called "man" in Hebrew, or "manna" in Greek, was the "Son of Man" a common term for salvation in a Divine Person.

The purpose of food is to biologically support your living.

The purpose of faith is spiritual food to support your powers in you. Not powers you do by yourself, but the powers you ask of Jesus, who will empower you to do as you ask.

When you do this asking, you surrender to a power higher and greater than yourself, outside of yourself, who comes into you to "produce a faith that works", not a human faith and works, from pious human endeavor.

The Jews misunderstood the process of genuine faith, so established their own version of faith, using Cain's Method because Cain did this first, so they "do what is right in their own eyes". (See Judges 21:25)

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Can you be saved by pious human works? By obeying the ten commandments using human pious powers only? Absolutely not.

Isa 64:6 ¶ But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;

So what purpose was the old way of the covenant given at Mt Sinai to Israel?

Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

To establish that humans are transgressors of the law, needing help from a Saviour.

Does faith null the ten words which are the foundation of our faith?

Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

How do we grapple with hard verses in Paul's writings?

The old covenant had transgressions written to be obeyed using pious human obedience, and thus served to bring us to Christ, so Israel or other Christians think. Indeed a wicked person is condemned by the transgressions written down in the royal torah, as James describes the ten commandments of transgression (See James chapter 1 and 2)

But hidden underneath this royal law are faith principles which establish missing as breaking faith, which the supporter of GOD clings to by faith. Such is the established new covenant founded on faith.

Ro 14:23 ... for whatsoever is not of faith is sin

Ps 119:86 All thy commandments are faithful:

So the supporter of Jesus takes the takings as words and prays to Jesus using precious promises so that through grace Jesus breaks open our mouth-head so our lips bring fruit and glory to the Father. (Hosea 14:2)

This principle of finding faith promises in the royal law is demonstrated by Jesus in showing us the first and greatest of faith promises:

Ho 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

So instead of the first commandment as a transgression commandment

Ex 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

We have the added words of our Saviour, showing us a faith food:

no saviour beside me. (Hosea 13:4)

Question: What is the sinful world and the sinless world to come, do supporters in the Divine Power require a saviour for?

Answer: To rescue us from our free will to break faith.

A sheep can and does walk, talk and eat freely using free will, but the Provider watches over the sheep for any moments of breaking of faith, so this rescue is always provided, so we must first ask for this, so we receive this power of salvation.

Psalm 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

In fact sheep are free to choose their walk, but the Lord Jesus direct the daily power in their steps.

Pr 16:9 ¶ A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

And as we walk in the Spirit, we "become quickened" after a time:

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

So we claim the faith foods in the Ten Words, rather than be condemned by transgressing the Ten Commandments as transgressors, we are treating our daily missings as breaking faith. These are similes as Paul writes as "letters" and "spirit".

For example instead of transgressing down the rabbit hole in adultery, simply eat the faith food "Lord no biological urge" and your faith will empower a complete change in your body and mind within seconds, so you no longer feel a biological urge to begin to transgress in the first place. Seek the faith that works in you, as Jesus promised in raining bread from heaven, that spiritually supports our powers of living in Jesus.

Shalom

[Admin]

The Gnostic person says :

"Robert tried to teach us his method to increase faith?

Robert was looking for a magical shortcut – he spoke of rituals – special prayers to repeat – things to do to gain reward.

Your first clue – scripture says very clearly – belief is all that is required to be saved to eternal life

Robert demands that scripture is error – belief is not the answer according to Robert – the answer lies with the ritual things he does. He has decided that the Hebrew word for FAITH = SUPPORT. If you support Jesus Christ by doing this and that – then Jesus will save you

It is a method of earning your way to heaven"

Let us show to readers what the NT says about this theme.


Ro 10:1 ¶ Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted (Greek word "hupotasso" )themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth (Greek word "pisteuo" ).
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith (Greek word "pistis") speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith (Greek word "pistis"), which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe (Greek word "pisteuo" ) in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth (Greek word "pisteuo" ) unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth (Greek word "pisteuo" ) on him shall not be ashamed.
12 ¶ For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed (Greek word "pisteuo" )? and how shall they believe (Greek word "pisteuo" )in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!


From this passage readers will note three Greek words "hupotasso" "pistis" and "pisteuo".

What do these Greek words mean? Well we could just say "I am unlearned, so I will allow the translator to tell me, thus I trust in the scholar, since I am unlearned?

Isa 29:12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

The problem with trusting a scholar is we might get a tradition of men or a precept of men. Science is the process of man reading and understanding things, so once a human labels something, other humans stick to the label, as if it was totally true, because the human labelled the observation with a certain label first? Is this kind of learning a good idea? No, because over the years science learning is faulty and the Scriptures says clearly to avoid the traditions and precepts of men.

Notice this theme expounded by Jesus:

Mt 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So while we are admonished to trust our pioneers traditions:

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

We are also told to avoid certain traditions of men

2Th 3:6 ¶ Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

So it can be difficult discerning the truth can't it?

So where does the Scripture tell us clearly how to read the Scriptures in the first place?

Isa 28:9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Here the Scriptures tell us for over 2 chapters how to read Scripture. First we begin on breast milk. What does this poetry refer to?

Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: (KJV)

So the purpose of milk is to provide simple doses of truth, and allow the babe in Christ to grow slowly and properly.

1Pe 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

Peter is quoting from the former rains, the former writings:

Ps 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Who is this YHWH LORD?

Ho 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth

The same YHWH Lord who gives us the former rains and the latter rains. What is rain a poetry symbol of?

Ex 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

Notice we are introduced in many poetry similes, rain bread is a wonderful poetry picture. The bread here is "man" or in Greek "manna" a food Israel said "what is it"?

Notice the rain is a symbol of the writings, translated here as law.

rain Strong's 4305 of a Hebrew word. In Ancient Hebrew the letters picture this picture: "The flowing basket head" comes in two forms meaning "raining/rain"

I guess we see the Nimbus Head like a basket ready to flow down upon us as raindrops.

bread Strong's 3899 Ancient Hebrew pictures "The Authority Outside Flows" comes in two forms of action, meaning "fighting/fight" and "eating/bread" refers too the way we punch and fight the dough before allowing it to become something we eat.

Readers will note I do not look up Strong's to explain a word meaning. I might look up the Ancient Hebrew pictures of the letters the word is composed of for clues.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

So the passage telling us how to read Scripture says to line up all the Hebrew words line upon line here a little and there a little across the entire Bible. So the Bible itself tells you what the word means, not some dictionary invented by a human scholar.

Question: Why do we have to read word meanings in Hebrew?

Answer: Because the Hebrew originally went forth in another tongue as a refreshing to those who can't read Hebrew.

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

But notice this another tongue goes with stammering lips.... fuzzy understandings...

Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

It was nice for the Gentiles to read the Bible in Kione Greek, but still many of them would not hear.

It was nice for other Gentiles to read the Bible in English, but still many of us would not hear. So where is the hearing of the word the loudest, the purest and and most foundational of them all? Answer: The Ancient Hebrew.

Ancient Hebrew is a dead language, but its letters are preserved in the modern Hebrew inside our Bibles, and with some help we can get a foundational understanding of word meanings.

Question: Why is a foundation understanding important?

Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Because the YHWH who wrote this message uses poetry to explain things all the time.

Mt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
(KJV)

The scripture say when we read His messages, always compare the meanings back to Jesus YHWH the Author of these messages in His OT and NT writings.

---------------

OK how do we read the Greek words back to their Hebrew meanings?

First you need to understand the NT in Greek was a translation of the Hebrew in the first place. Where does the Scriptures in the NT say this?

Isa 28:11 ..and another tongue

Paul uses this verse and quotes it in the NT latter rains

1Co 14:21 ¶ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Here Paul uses uses the Greek word meaning "believe"... but notice at the end of this passage:

1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

What does "interpreter" same as "interpret" mean?

Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he "Jesus" expounded "translated" unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Notice Jesus was translating the Hebrew Scriptures to the two men walking along the road after Jesus had died on the Cross and was raised from the dead. How come Hebrew readers of Scripture could not read Hebrew verses correctly? And hence required a "translator"?

Mt 5:21 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:

Why is Jesus saying, you have heard it said in the torah writings? The common people were told how to interpret the Hebrew by scholars who were priests and they told the people the traditional way to "translate" the Scriptures in Hebrew. The quotes is important, since we detailed modern readers do not see word meanings in broad meanings like the Hebrew does. How many Churches do you know where the priest or pastor "translates" the Scriptures for you, with traditional meanings and precepts of men?

And what does the Scripture say of this process?

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips  Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

OK so lets now consider the Hebrew meanings of these Greek words.

The best way to find the Hebrew word meanings is to look for passages quoted in the NT:

De 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

But sadly the OT does not quote all the NT writings in this case.

De 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life,

De 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Instead we get more poetry... can be confusing to look all these pictures...

The Author has done a study of "obey" the Hebrew word "shamar".

The word means to "process"

So De 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest "process" his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life,

What this passage is doing, is explaining the process of "faith" using concrete tangible examples, like "process his voice" and "cleave unto Jesus YHWH as a marriage person does" , "for Jesus is your life" , the same poetry applies to  "circumcise thine heart" which Jews took as literally removing the penal foreskin, but was actually another symbol of the removal of the foreskin around the heart, something a human cannot remove physically and still remain living. But Jesus did, and became this for us.

In fact the OT does speak of "faith" in "Jesus YHWH" but the poetry hides the obvious links to the word meaning. Why was it hidden? Because the people misunderstood the intentions of Jesus-YHWH saving them in the first place.

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

So they did not understand the "doing process" and so begun their own method of doing based upon human power. Human traditions and human precepts. A human religion with human cultural ways.

There are two ways of doing :

(1) Doing using human power

(2) Doing using divine power

God shows us both of these examples using twin boys,

Cain : Ancient Hebrew pictures "The unknown active hands over the nations"

Abel : Ancient Hebrew pictures "Behold the person. With home Authority"

Ge 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, "sin-offering" "chataah" lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. (Ancient Hebrew)

The King James often translates chataah as sin-offering and other times as sin.

The correct understanding is this sin we do was offered unto a sin bearer, who took our sin as a sin-offering for our guilt and thus made atonement for our missing. This process of salvation was told to Adam and Eve when they sinned, hence a Saviour came to declare this only way of salvation to them.

But again it's more poetry, not well or easily understood.

So this is why the latter rains is helpful to explain and unlock the poetry pictures of the former rains.

Consider this passage of Jesus talking to Nicodemus.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

This passage does not seem to use any "faith" words, but actually it does.

The words "verily" are in Greek the word "amen" and this is a Hebrew word meaning taken directly into the NT.

Nu 5:22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.

Here the same theme, using the same Hebrew words "amen"

Strong's 543 : amen "Ancient Hebrew pictures" Strong flow over the nations"

Wow we are getting there. The strong flow over the nations is a clue to this family of words all meaning "faith".

OK how does a man get born a second time ? Jesus does not explain how, because the answer was already spoken about in the former rain.

Notice this must be a faith process and uses a "womb" process with some function as a mother does redeveloping the person inside the "womb". Notice the Hebrew does not have a word meaning for "womb" the real word meaning is "compassion-centre/ compassion" for this word with two forms of action.

We also know the "Spirit" here refers to the Holy Spirit.

The only place in the OT writings talking of this second birth process is a prayer of David.

Ps 51:6 Behold, thou desirest "truth" in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

The word "truth" here is also a word from this family of faith words.

Truth "The Strong flow over the nations, towards an important mark"

SO this verse reads" Ps 51:6 Behold, thou desirest "faith affirming truth" in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

And the verse speaks

Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

So the second birth is a creative process inside the compassion-centre of the Holy Spirit, who makes us with a clean heart, where the skin around the heart is circumcised

So the Greek word "pisteuo" is the Hebrew word  "aman" from this verse:

Ge 15:6 And he (Abraham)  believed "aman" in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

believed Strong's 539 "Ancient Hebrew " "strong flow over the nations"

So the process of getting saved by Jesus is all about understanding a family of Hebrew words meaning "faith" and has nothing to do with the NT translation as the word meaning "believe" as this Gnostic Christian assumes.

Shalom