Post by Admin on Aug 23, 2024 8:44:37 GMT
Gnostic Christian beliefs are very different from other religious views.
From a forum operated by a Gnostic Christian, known to the Author.
A new member Forum writer” Are you suggesting that God made the world full of pain and suffering on purpose?
Gnostic writer: “Hmmmmmmm ……. YES
Rob replies: “Does Scripture say “Elohiym” intentionally created a world of RA ?
Ex 20:1 ¶ And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
This verse is the first of the “royal torah” as James proclaims this, a Jew who wrote about some commandments as special within the Jewish framework of salvation.
Jas 2:8 ¶ If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Question: How does the royal torah become a torah of liberty?
Second question: Notice the elohiym is written as “YHWH Elohiym” and what does this mean?
Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
There are many places where such verses like this exist, but one is enough, it says two YHWH are both are doing judgement upon Sodom at the same time, one from heaven and one from earth, across space in two locations that are different at the same time. Why is it necessary to see there are TWO YHWH inside the Elohiym God-head?
You require TWO YHWH's in order to show or experience LOVE and also to show or experience FAITH. Both of these functions require relational concepts. Hence ELOHIYM has to have two YHWH's , that function as cardinally ONE power.
Our Gnostic writer gets around this by saying the Father has two expressions of Himself, thus we have the right hand expression (YHWH the Son) AND the left hand expression (The Father YHWH). However as nice as this theory is, it makes the Father / Son concept of Scripture mere role playing. And it violates the phrase “malak of YHWH” and “malak of Elohiym” where one YHWH is functioning as a messenger for the other YHWH.
(If a Father expression is carrying his own message by a different expression, he is hardly a true messenger as the term implies) ( Also if a Father expression is carrying the love another Father expression, this is hardly a demonstration of love, as the term implies) (Also the term expressions, negates the true meanings of Father and Son)
Another aspect of Jewish thought is the removal of free will from angels.
Ps 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
45 ¶ And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
If the royal torah is truly as James says is a process of liberty, he is referring to this OT verse, where the royal torah is continually kept for ever and ever, as we walk in it with liberty.
This implies to me that all creatures walk in the royal torah, including the God-head demonstrating both love and faith, as well as loving and being faithful.
Ps 119:86 All thy commandments are faithful:
In fact the royal torah are faith process principles.
Just as love and being loved is relational, so is Faith and being faithful is also relational. This is a concept our Gnostic writer would disagree.
The Jews would also disagree because they sought to establish a different process of attaining righteousness by faith, doing what is right in their own eyes (Judges 17) (Romans 10), their definition is more about "trust" or "mental assent".
Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Forum writer” How can a God of love create evil? Sounds very disrespectful to God
How can you deny Lucifer? The perfect angel that became satan.
Don't you have an answer?
Rob replies” Yes the first of the royal torah tells you that GOD has an opposing elohiym power already in existence:
Ex 20:1 ¶ And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Question: How does a free will creature become an opposing elohiym power?
Such a question has to refer to free will creatures, because if GOD is the only elohiym power there is, such a law would not be required, hence the term has to refer to creatures GOD has created that using free will would cause CHANGE.
So how does a creature of free will CHANGE and become a opposing elohiym power?
Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:
A opposing elohiym power is a free will creature that knows both TOV and RA.
This verse does not say such creatures are living in TOV and RA, as our Gnostic writer suggests, but personally is doing both TOV and RA. Thus from this definition we can say BEFORE Adam sinned and Eve sinned they were only doing TOV and never doing RA.
Doing RA has to be the definition of choosing wrong, ie to disobey. It also has to imply the breaking of faith, hence doing things without God's love.
La 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
This verse says the Most High does not do RA. and that free will creatures that do RA, do so because of their sins. Therefore doing RA is a consequence of sin.
So this royal first law :
Ex 20:1 ¶ And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Our Gnostic writer writes: "(1) Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress. He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God.
Rob replies: “I agree. No creature has independence to (1) live - only God is immortal
or to (2) do evil - God has to allow this dysfunction to exist in His perfect world by creating the RA, so the evil can be observed.
Question: Did the opposing power require permission to kill all of Job’s children? No.
So this Gnostic claim is false, at best GOD was limiting the power of the Opposer. Therefore within limits, the Opposer does have independent powers to act as He likes.
"and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence" so the Jews are locked into the idea that monotheism is all there is? I agree with this idea, for only a single fountain of love flows from the God-head, but the Jews does not consider how love is generated within this one God-head. Does the Jew allow a plurality of persons?
So if mankind has become an opposing elohiym power, why doesn’t mankind disturb the notion of monotheism? Something wrong with this Gnostic logic? Didn’t Jesus say we have become like gods, children of the Most High? Surely if this can happen to humans, why can’t it have happened to other creatures also with free will?
Gnostic writer writes” (2) Satan as that member of the divine council who watches over human activity, but with the evil purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their accuser. He is, therefore, the celestial prosecutor,"
Rob replies: “ Even if GOD allows angels to investigate sinning, how much investigation of sinning, is possible by an angel? How much sin could an angel see?
If the relationship of living is based on faith, and all the commandments are based on faith, as the Ps 119:86 says, than how does an angel see mankind breaking faith or maintaining faith, which begins as a doing inside the free will of the mind? Can angels read the mind? No. Only God can. God can tell the causal faith verses the real touch of faith.
Mr 5:31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.
33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace,
Since breaking faith is a power from GOD, and all are required to live by this relationship, thus an angel has to see into the very fabric of GOD in RELATIONSHIP, and angels cannot do this. All angels could see is transgressions of the law. Angels cannot see breaking of faith, which is what the royal torah is all about, at a higher level.
The Gnostic writes"(3) "adversary," being applied (as in) an enemy in war
Rob replies” If GOD is an agent of peace, how can GOD also allow his angel to become an agent of war? Oxymoron, contradiction.
Gnostic writer claims "The Nag Hammadi Library was from one of these early 1st or 2nd Century New Christian groups of Egypt
Rob replies” I beg to differ. I suspect Gnostic writings were those opposing the true gospel, as John and Paul wrote about Gnostic writings and have nothing to do with them.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of "Gnosis” falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.
The Gnostic writer claims "3- Christians forget – at the time – Rome hated the Jews - they killed Christ
Rob replies” I beg to differ. The Opposer hates Christ and tries to exterminate Christ and His teachings.
Gnostic writer writes “ Member Robert is a Seventh Day Adventist
Adventist.org - www.adventist.org › the-great-controversy
The Great Controversy is a spiritual battle (between God and Catholic Satan) a conflict over God's character and His right to rule the universe.
Rob replies” Why does my Gnostic friend write about me since I left your forum, why do you continue to write about me and our differences? This is disrespectful.
As a Gnostic writer, you write falsely "As a Judeo-Christian – as a Gnostic Christian – this is insulting and disrespectful to God
Member Robert goes so far that – Earthquakes and volcanoes didn’t exist -nothing ever ate, reproduced, or died – until Adam sinned – then satan CHANGED all creation
I would be honored if you wrote things correctly, but you didn’t. I would say volcanoes and such things are the result of Adam's sin, when God cursed the ground.
Gnostic writer writes “ how their Satan god CHANGED all creation away from God’s intended design – this is a flawed world – everything is corrupted by Catholic Satan
ROB replies: “God allows dysfunction into His Creation, no Opposer has this power of changing things as you imply by powers of creating change. I am sorry if you misunderstood our discussions. All opposers can do is spoil, degrade and destroy.
Ge 3:17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake;
GOD changes the conditions of the earth, not some Opposer as you claim?
God is reacting to the sinning condition of mankind, so the sinning causes the reaction of God, God is not mocked a man reaps what he sows.
The Opposer spoils things, does mischief causes destruction, can lie and murder, but only a Creator creates. I have never said the Opposer can create anything, either good or bad, so where do you get your notions from? Not me.
Gnostic writer writes: "Jewish belief #1 – God is Absolute – creation is exactly as God intended – exactly as created
Rob replies: “So this implies that CHANGE can never happen? If creatures have free will, they therefore can change the way they love, within the limits of their designed DNA code a sacred code written there by GOD. Question: what causes the changes of the free will? Answer: Sin does, when a creature chooses to break faith, and sin. (See Romans 14)
God designed the possibility for breaking faith, but never wanted a creature to break faith, hence the creature always remains living faithfully under and in Gods love.
He writes : "Why did God place Eve + the 1st Commandment + the serpent together in the garden?
The Judeo-Christian answer - Jewish belief #2 – God test His people - Deu 8:2 … in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.
Rob replies” Why does a sinless world of living faithfully in God’s love, require testing by some agent to break faith? Isn’t the faith process is already proof you are living by faith in God, therefore it does not need testing does it?
God can tell if you touch Him by faith or not by faith, He knows, no testing required....
Mr 5:31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.
33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole;
Gnostic Christian writes "Why didn’t God forgive Adam and Eve? Instead – God established the Contest of Gen 3:14-24
Instead of forgiveness – God established a centuries long CHALLENGE / CONTEST / STRUGGLE
Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.”
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities (ARCHON), against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Rob replies: Our Gnostic writer does not investigate the royal torah for judgements that interpret the law when the law is broken.
There is a law that cannot be forgiven easily
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Question: What mischief did the mischief maker do to Eve? He changed the sacred code inside her compassion-centre, changing the DNA code would cause permanent damage to the future seed of mankind.
Where is this same mischief written in the NT?
Re 12:1 ¶ And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Which power caused this mischief?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Our Gnostic writer goes to lengths to explain the term “Satan” here is a Greek word “Satanas” and this is the serpent power in Eden, not some good angel functioning as a celestial prosecutor as the hey-STN. Hence the Archons are these satanas powers which the serpent was a power of.
It has been extremely difficult to find any scholar to verify that the Hebrew word STN is different as a word meaning to the Greek word Satanas. I find the Greek wanting to name the un-named Opposer in the OT with a name, so they added “-as” to the Hebrew word Satan, and came up with Satanas. Hence the term Satan and Satanas are the same Opposer.
Gnostic writer supports “ The Gnostic ARCHON are an entire race of beings – the Serpent Race – unique and separate from Angels
The ARCHON – are in-between – ethereal beings – invisible to man – yet able to appear as biology
How do the Gnostic Archon deceive humanity
"Moreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit".
ROB replies” So GOD created these Archon creatures who intentionally do RA, simply to test mankind and make them break faith? Isn't this a contradiction of RA?
La 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
Seems to me only sin causes the RA to be created by the Most High.... God would never create a sinless creature doing RA intentionally for some testing purpose?
Question: how often has sin occurred with the Most High?
Na 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth.
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies.
9 ¶ What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
So sin has only ever occurred once in the history of the LORD in time, never to happen ever again. Sin never rises up the second time.
Question: How many other creatures have sinned before the Lord?
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Shalom my friend
From a forum operated by a Gnostic Christian, known to the Author.
A new member Forum writer” Are you suggesting that God made the world full of pain and suffering on purpose?
Gnostic writer: “Hmmmmmmm ……. YES
Rob replies: “Does Scripture say “Elohiym” intentionally created a world of RA ?
Ex 20:1 ¶ And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
This verse is the first of the “royal torah” as James proclaims this, a Jew who wrote about some commandments as special within the Jewish framework of salvation.
Jas 2:8 ¶ If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Question: How does the royal torah become a torah of liberty?
Second question: Notice the elohiym is written as “YHWH Elohiym” and what does this mean?
Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
There are many places where such verses like this exist, but one is enough, it says two YHWH are both are doing judgement upon Sodom at the same time, one from heaven and one from earth, across space in two locations that are different at the same time. Why is it necessary to see there are TWO YHWH inside the Elohiym God-head?
You require TWO YHWH's in order to show or experience LOVE and also to show or experience FAITH. Both of these functions require relational concepts. Hence ELOHIYM has to have two YHWH's , that function as cardinally ONE power.
Our Gnostic writer gets around this by saying the Father has two expressions of Himself, thus we have the right hand expression (YHWH the Son) AND the left hand expression (The Father YHWH). However as nice as this theory is, it makes the Father / Son concept of Scripture mere role playing. And it violates the phrase “malak of YHWH” and “malak of Elohiym” where one YHWH is functioning as a messenger for the other YHWH.
(If a Father expression is carrying his own message by a different expression, he is hardly a true messenger as the term implies) ( Also if a Father expression is carrying the love another Father expression, this is hardly a demonstration of love, as the term implies) (Also the term expressions, negates the true meanings of Father and Son)
Another aspect of Jewish thought is the removal of free will from angels.
Ps 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
45 ¶ And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
If the royal torah is truly as James says is a process of liberty, he is referring to this OT verse, where the royal torah is continually kept for ever and ever, as we walk in it with liberty.
This implies to me that all creatures walk in the royal torah, including the God-head demonstrating both love and faith, as well as loving and being faithful.
Ps 119:86 All thy commandments are faithful:
In fact the royal torah are faith process principles.
Just as love and being loved is relational, so is Faith and being faithful is also relational. This is a concept our Gnostic writer would disagree.
The Jews would also disagree because they sought to establish a different process of attaining righteousness by faith, doing what is right in their own eyes (Judges 17) (Romans 10), their definition is more about "trust" or "mental assent".
Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Forum writer” How can a God of love create evil? Sounds very disrespectful to God
How can you deny Lucifer? The perfect angel that became satan.
Don't you have an answer?
Rob replies” Yes the first of the royal torah tells you that GOD has an opposing elohiym power already in existence:
Ex 20:1 ¶ And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
When was the royal torah written? Long before Sabbath law came into being, because the Sabbath law existed at least one day seven of Creation, when God also ceased from creating. So the possibility of other opposing elohiym powers before the Father's face, had to be a consideration long before mankind came to exist.
Such a question has to refer to free will creatures, because if GOD is the only elohiym power there is, such a law would not be required, hence the term has to refer to creatures GOD has created that using free will would cause CHANGE.
Our Gnostic writer does not like this word CHANGE. God never changes Scripture tells us, so who does change? The answer has to be free will. Only free will allows creatures to change. If you remove free will from angels while allowing some creatures like humans to have free will, we have a oxymoron here? Why does GOD create some creatures without free will? What do people mean by free will anyway?
Why even Alex the grey African parrot went on science record experiments proving to the whole world even the lowly bird has free will to CHANGE, ie express love or hate when the parrot fancied to do either function. So I am left to conclude all higher forms of living creatures do indeed have free will to love or to hate (the opposite of love). Hence love comes with risk, ie free will of choice.
So how does a creature of free will CHANGE and become a opposing elohiym power?
Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:
A opposing elohiym power is a free will creature that knows both TOV and RA.
This verse does not say such creatures are living in TOV and RA, as our Gnostic writer suggests, but personally is doing both TOV and RA. Thus from this definition we can say BEFORE Adam sinned and Eve sinned they were only doing TOV and never doing RA.
Doing RA has to be the definition of choosing wrong, ie to disobey. It also has to imply the breaking of faith, hence doing things without God's love.
La 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
This verse says the Most High does not do RA. and that free will creatures that do RA, do so because of their sins. Therefore doing RA is a consequence of sin.
So this royal first law :
Ex 20:1 ¶ And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Such a written law, written by the finger of GOD, implies there was already a false opposing elohiym power before the Father’s face, otherwise the royal torah would not command mankind from becoming an opposing power as well.
If mankind was the first ever creature to have sinned as the Gnostic writer implies, the first of the royal torah commands should be written as :
Ex 20:2 I am your YHWH Elohiym, do not break faith with me,
and 3 become an opposing elohiym power before me.
Why is mankind rescued from a house of bondage? Why can't mankind just be forgiven by God, but instead requires this complex rescue from bondage? Obviously mankind was not the first to have sinned, for as the judgement says in Exodus 21, some mischief maker did mischief to mankind, preventing their repenting NOT being good enough to return wholly to God.
Our Gnostic writer writes: "(1) Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress. He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God.
Rob replies: “I agree. No creature has independence to (1) live - only God is immortal
or to (2) do evil - God has to allow this dysfunction to exist in His perfect world by creating the RA, so the evil can be observed.
Question: Did the opposing power require permission to kill all of Job’s children? No.
So this Gnostic claim is false, at best GOD was limiting the power of the Opposer. Therefore within limits, the Opposer does have independent powers to act as He likes.
"and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence" so the Jews are locked into the idea that monotheism is all there is? I agree with this idea, for only a single fountain of love flows from the God-head, but the Jews does not consider how love is generated within this one God-head. Does the Jew allow a plurality of persons?
So if mankind has become an opposing elohiym power, why doesn’t mankind disturb the notion of monotheism? Something wrong with this Gnostic logic? Didn’t Jesus say we have become like gods, children of the Most High? Surely if this can happen to humans, why can’t it have happened to other creatures also with free will?
Gnostic writer writes” (2) Satan as that member of the divine council who watches over human activity, but with the evil purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their accuser. He is, therefore, the celestial prosecutor,"
Rob replies: “ Even if GOD allows angels to investigate sinning, how much investigation of sinning, is possible by an angel? How much sin could an angel see?
If the relationship of living is based on faith, and all the commandments are based on faith, as the Ps 119:86 says, than how does an angel see mankind breaking faith or maintaining faith, which begins as a doing inside the free will of the mind? Can angels read the mind? No. Only God can. God can tell the causal faith verses the real touch of faith.
Mr 5:31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.
33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace,
Since breaking faith is a power from GOD, and all are required to live by this relationship, thus an angel has to see into the very fabric of GOD in RELATIONSHIP, and angels cannot do this. All angels could see is transgressions of the law. Angels cannot see breaking of faith, which is what the royal torah is all about, at a higher level.
The Gnostic writes"(3) "adversary," being applied (as in) an enemy in war
Rob replies” If GOD is an agent of peace, how can GOD also allow his angel to become an agent of war? Oxymoron, contradiction.
Gnostic writer claims "The Nag Hammadi Library was from one of these early 1st or 2nd Century New Christian groups of Egypt
Rob replies” I beg to differ. I suspect Gnostic writings were those opposing the true gospel, as John and Paul wrote about Gnostic writings and have nothing to do with them.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of "Gnosis” falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.
The Gnostic writer claims "3- Christians forget – at the time – Rome hated the Jews - they killed Christ
Rob replies” I beg to differ. The Opposer hates Christ and tries to exterminate Christ and His teachings.
Gnostic writer writes “ Member Robert is a Seventh Day Adventist
Adventist.org - www.adventist.org › the-great-controversy
The Great Controversy is a spiritual battle (between God and Catholic Satan) a conflict over God's character and His right to rule the universe.
Rob replies” Why does my Gnostic friend write about me since I left your forum, why do you continue to write about me and our differences? This is disrespectful.
As a Gnostic writer, you write falsely "As a Judeo-Christian – as a Gnostic Christian – this is insulting and disrespectful to God
Member Robert goes so far that – Earthquakes and volcanoes didn’t exist -nothing ever ate, reproduced, or died – until Adam sinned – then satan CHANGED all creation
Rob replies” God is the author of His Creation, both functional and dysfunctional, if any dysfunctional changes happened it is because GOD allowed them to happen, and why does GOD allow dysfunctional things to happen in His Creation, is because Mankind chose to sin.
I would be honored if you wrote things correctly, but you didn’t. I would say volcanoes and such things are the result of Adam's sin, when God cursed the ground.
Gnostic writer writes “ how their Satan god CHANGED all creation away from God’s intended design – this is a flawed world – everything is corrupted by Catholic Satan
ROB replies: “God allows dysfunction into His Creation, no Opposer has this power of changing things as you imply by powers of creating change. I am sorry if you misunderstood our discussions. All opposers can do is spoil, degrade and destroy.
Ge 3:17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake;
GOD changes the conditions of the earth, not some Opposer as you claim?
God is reacting to the sinning condition of mankind, so the sinning causes the reaction of God, God is not mocked a man reaps what he sows.
The Opposer spoils things, does mischief causes destruction, can lie and murder, but only a Creator creates. I have never said the Opposer can create anything, either good or bad, so where do you get your notions from? Not me.
Gnostic writer writes: "Jewish belief #1 – God is Absolute – creation is exactly as God intended – exactly as created
Rob replies: “So this implies that CHANGE can never happen? If creatures have free will, they therefore can change the way they love, within the limits of their designed DNA code a sacred code written there by GOD. Question: what causes the changes of the free will? Answer: Sin does, when a creature chooses to break faith, and sin. (See Romans 14)
God designed the possibility for breaking faith, but never wanted a creature to break faith, hence the creature always remains living faithfully under and in Gods love.
He writes : "Why did God place Eve + the 1st Commandment + the serpent together in the garden?
The Judeo-Christian answer - Jewish belief #2 – God test His people - Deu 8:2 … in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.
Rob replies” Why does a sinless world of living faithfully in God’s love, require testing by some agent to break faith? Isn’t the faith process is already proof you are living by faith in God, therefore it does not need testing does it?
God can tell if you touch Him by faith or not by faith, He knows, no testing required....
Mr 5:31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.
33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole;
So in a sinless world, all humans are touching GOD all the time and hence GOD knows this, so no further testing is required.... how come the others who touched him never received a welcome comment? Because they did not want eternal life. Only this one woman did.
In a sinning world, God tests his lukewarm ones because they have not truly experienced continual righteousness by faith, they do not live continually in God's faithful relationship. They are not daily processing in faith.
Instead of forgiveness – God established a centuries long CHALLENGE / CONTEST / STRUGGLE
Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.”
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities (ARCHON), against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Rob replies: Our Gnostic writer does not investigate the royal torah for judgements that interpret the law when the law is broken.
There is a law that cannot be forgiven easily
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Question: What mischief did the mischief maker do to Eve? He changed the sacred code inside her compassion-centre, changing the DNA code would cause permanent damage to the future seed of mankind.
Where is this same mischief written in the NT?
Re 12:1 ¶ And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Which power caused this mischief?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Our Gnostic writer goes to lengths to explain the term “Satan” here is a Greek word “Satanas” and this is the serpent power in Eden, not some good angel functioning as a celestial prosecutor as the hey-STN. Hence the Archons are these satanas powers which the serpent was a power of.
It has been extremely difficult to find any scholar to verify that the Hebrew word STN is different as a word meaning to the Greek word Satanas. I find the Greek wanting to name the un-named Opposer in the OT with a name, so they added “-as” to the Hebrew word Satan, and came up with Satanas. Hence the term Satan and Satanas are the same Opposer.
Gnostic writer supports “ The Gnostic ARCHON are an entire race of beings – the Serpent Race – unique and separate from Angels
The ARCHON – are in-between – ethereal beings – invisible to man – yet able to appear as biology
How do the Gnostic Archon deceive humanity
"Moreover, they threw mankind into great distraction and into a life of toil, so that their mankind might be occupied by worldly affairs, and might not have the opportunity of being devoted to the holy spirit".
ROB replies” So GOD created these Archon creatures who intentionally do RA, simply to test mankind and make them break faith? Isn't this a contradiction of RA?
La 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
Seems to me only sin causes the RA to be created by the Most High.... God would never create a sinless creature doing RA intentionally for some testing purpose?
Question: how often has sin occurred with the Most High?
Na 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth.
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies.
9 ¶ What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
So sin has only ever occurred once in the history of the LORD in time, never to happen ever again. Sin never rises up the second time.
Question: How many other creatures have sinned before the Lord?
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Notice the cherub is created as a creature that sins. This is a verse our Gnostic writer ignores and implies the CATHOLIC EDIT changed? Or could it be the Opposer made sure the Jewish understanding of this verse was suppressed? So we have the Jewish traditions and precepts of men instead?
If you are stuck in Babylon, you remain pondering confusion.
Come out of Confusion (Babylon) , the Bible says...
Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people,