Post by Admin on Sept 7, 2024 21:22:38 GMT
How does a simple person read the Bible verses?
Google explains:
Exegesis is legitimate interpretation which "reads out of' the text what the original author or authors meant to convey. Eisegesis, on the other hand, reads into the text what the interpreter wishes to find or thinks he finds there. It expresses the reader's own subjective ideas, not the meaning which is in the text.
www.ligonier.org/podcasts/simply-put/exegesis-and-eisegesis
An example of eisegesis - reading into a biblical text - might be the small group member who, no matter which passage of Scripture you’re reading, always manages somehow to bring the discussion round to their particular hobby horse, whether it be predestination, or God’s love, or human sin, or the need to care for the poor. All these things are in the Bible - but they’re not in every verse. If we think they are, then we’re eisegeting the text instead of exegeting it.
Some of us read the Bible like that too. We mould the Bible into our own image, rather than allowing it to mould us. It’s as if we’ve already decided what Scripture should and should not say before we open it, and when we do open it, lo and behold, it confirms all our prejudices, blesses our philosophies, and always, always agrees with us. Which, given that this is God’s word and not ours, ought to make us suspicious about our ability to read.
-------------------------
Our local Pastor wrote:
"At the same time I must be honest and say that I do not agree with your exegesis of many of the passages you have presented to lead to your conclusion. In many ways I feel that you have overcomplicated a fairly simple and straightforward concept".
Our local SDA member from Africa spoke
"Many of us read into the Bible verses our own ideas, eisegeting the text instead of exegeting the Bible verse correctly."
Rob replies: Wow such complicated words to explain a simple process. So let’s get this into basics from the beginning.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1326.htm
So in other words before a simple layman reads the Bible verses, he is already getting bias and opinions from his translator regarding how he reads the Greek or Hebrew in the verses.
So you the unlearned are trusting the learned ones to give you an opinion of the Bible verses presented to you.
Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Now what are these verses talking about, assuming they are translated correctly for us by the King James version?
Why does GOD pour upon humans a spirit of deep sleep and close our eyes, so the verses of the Bible are sealed, shut up and made not known to simple Bible reading people?
So when we are given the Bible we cannot read the Scriptures because I am not learned?
Eze 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?
What is this verse saying, assuming the word “parable” is correct? Or is this saying, why is the Bible full of poetry? Poetry is both easy and difficult to fathom.
Notice the disciples asked Jesus why do you speak in poetry all the time?
Mt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Poetry makes things easy to understand and also things difficult to understand.
Here is a poem I wrote when taught about John Dunne metaphysical poems, aged 16 or 17 years old:-
Mighty light in labour,
Dawns upon the earth,
Slowly she awakens,
Creation into renewed birth.
One humble insect,
On wing toiling long,
Diligently she gathers,
Her portion of nature's fuel,
Among coloured rainbows,
She sings buzzing song,
Obediently her faithful work,
Reflects His patterned rule.
No fruits of her work,
Are easy to see,
Let us question our role,
Of grace from Thee.
One humble servant,
Who sings Scripture's Word
Diligently he gathers,
His manna of Holy Fuel,
Faith outward active,
For he surrendered heard,
Responds without a question,
To our blessed Saviour's Rule.
For faith is nothing
Anyone can see,
We should be a worker,
In our Lord's mercy.
This young author also writes "Faith outward active,
Do we read the original Bible letters and words in Ancient Hebrew? How can I when I am unlearned?
Or do we read the Bible in modern Hebrew? I am still not learned to do this?
So what does the simple layperson do, when trying to read a letters and words that are unfamiliar to him?
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EGW" By faith Paul appropriated the grace of Christ, and this grace supplied the necessities of his soul. By faith he received the heavenly gift, and imparted it to souls longing for light. This is the experience we need.... Pray for this faith. Strive for it. Believe that God will give it to you.... {HP 57.3}
EGW" The wise virgins had not only an intelligent knowledge of the truth, but through the imparted grace of Jesus Christ, their faith and patience and love constantly increased. Their lamps were replenished by their vital connection with the Light of the world. While the foolish virgins awoke to find their lamps burning dimly, or going out in the darkness, the wise virgins, with their lamps burning brightly, entered the festal hall, and the gates were shut. Greatly rejoicing at the sound of the bridegroom’s voice, they joined the bridal procession. {RH July 20, 1897, par. 4}
EGW: "The faith imparted to us is a working faith. It is not sight, for then it could be no more faith. The love of Jesus in the heart is worth everything to us. We can be patient under pain, and not distress our souls with constant worrying, for Christ is at our right hand to help us in every emergency. We must daily educate ourselves to walk as in the sight of God. We will often be disappointed in our expectations of men, of their piety and religious experience. {Lt96-1892.}
Google explains:
Exegesis is legitimate interpretation which "reads out of' the text what the original author or authors meant to convey. Eisegesis, on the other hand, reads into the text what the interpreter wishes to find or thinks he finds there. It expresses the reader's own subjective ideas, not the meaning which is in the text.
www.ligonier.org/podcasts/simply-put/exegesis-and-eisegesis
An example of eisegesis - reading into a biblical text - might be the small group member who, no matter which passage of Scripture you’re reading, always manages somehow to bring the discussion round to their particular hobby horse, whether it be predestination, or God’s love, or human sin, or the need to care for the poor. All these things are in the Bible - but they’re not in every verse. If we think they are, then we’re eisegeting the text instead of exegeting it.
Some of us read the Bible like that too. We mould the Bible into our own image, rather than allowing it to mould us. It’s as if we’ve already decided what Scripture should and should not say before we open it, and when we do open it, lo and behold, it confirms all our prejudices, blesses our philosophies, and always, always agrees with us. Which, given that this is God’s word and not ours, ought to make us suspicious about our ability to read.
-------------------------
Our local Pastor wrote:
"At the same time I must be honest and say that I do not agree with your exegesis of many of the passages you have presented to lead to your conclusion. In many ways I feel that you have overcomplicated a fairly simple and straightforward concept".
Rob replies:
(1) So many of the Bible verses we presented, are presented wrongly?
(2) I have over complicated a fairly simple concept?Our local SDA member from Africa spoke
"Many of us read into the Bible verses our own ideas, eisegeting the text instead of exegeting the Bible verse correctly."
Rob replies: Wow such complicated words to explain a simple process. So let’s get this into basics from the beginning.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-1326.htm
Quote from Jeff Benner: " A translation of the Biblical text is a translator's "interpretation" of the text. The translator's beliefs will often influence how the text will be translated and anyone using this translation will see it through the translator's eyes rather than that of the original authors. Only by studying the original language of the Bible can one see and understand the text in its original state." (Jeff Benner's book, learning to read Biblical Hebrew, page 1)
So in other words before a simple layman reads the Bible verses, he is already getting bias and opinions from his translator regarding how he reads the Greek or Hebrew in the verses.
So you the unlearned are trusting the learned ones to give you an opinion of the Bible verses presented to you.
Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Now what are these verses talking about, assuming they are translated correctly for us by the King James version?
Why does GOD pour upon humans a spirit of deep sleep and close our eyes, so the verses of the Bible are sealed, shut up and made not known to simple Bible reading people?
So when we are given the Bible we cannot read the Scriptures because I am not learned?
Eze 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?
What is this verse saying, assuming the word “parable” is correct? Or is this saying, why is the Bible full of poetry? Poetry is both easy and difficult to fathom.
Notice the disciples asked Jesus why do you speak in poetry all the time?
Mt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Poetry makes things easy to understand and also things difficult to understand.
Here is a poem I wrote when taught about John Dunne metaphysical poems, aged 16 or 17 years old:-
Day One
Mighty light in labour,
Dawns upon the earth,
Slowly she awakens,
Creation into renewed birth.
One humble insect,
On wing toiling long,
Diligently she gathers,
Her portion of nature's fuel,
Among coloured rainbows,
She sings buzzing song,
Obediently her faithful work,
Reflects His patterned rule.
No fruits of her work,
Are easy to see,
Let us question our role,
Of grace from Thee.
One humble servant,
Who sings Scripture's Word
Diligently he gathers,
His manna of Holy Fuel,
Faith outward active,
For he surrendered heard,
Responds without a question,
To our blessed Saviour's Rule.
For faith is nothing
Anyone can see,
We should be a worker,
In our Lord's mercy.
His manna of Holy Fuel is a play on English words, his manner of Holy Fuels, as well as a simile to real manna, a simile of faith. Poetry is fun, making things easy as well as complex, and hiding deep material from the casual reader. The Bible is full of such poetry.
This young author also writes "Faith outward active,
For he surrendered heard," is a reference we think to "sanctified by faith"; a term the Lord impressed me today to investigate. Sanctification is outward growing by Jesus and Justification is inward growing by Jesus. These are two processes of faith. Has anybody ever considered this before?
Strange how one can read a simple child like poem over 40 years later and get a totally different "exegesis" from the lines of poetry? It seems to me the idea of this theme was there all the time, but I didn't know this way back than....
Do we read the original Bible letters and words in Ancient Hebrew? How can I when I am unlearned?
Or do we read the Bible in modern Hebrew? I am still not learned to do this?
So what does the simple layperson do, when trying to read a letters and words that are unfamiliar to him?
And how do we read using Bible grammar ( the yellow letters in this image) and language skills, assuming we were taught grammar and language skills at school or by our parents, or maybe we have assumed we can read using our own traditions and precepts of men?
I mean I really am angry at English teachers who never taught me enough grammar at school. And if we did learn such things, would we get all the answers presented without bias?
In the above image, we have the Ancient Hebrew letters preserved to some degree, but no idea about the grammar rules of those letters. Do we assume Ancient Hebrew uses the same grammar as Modern Hebrew? I hardly think so.
Now consider this poem written in poetry:
Here is a little of a poem called Bilingual Beowulf, written in Anglo Saxon English, the oldest English the Author can find on the Internet.
I have included underneath the poetry two translations by two English scholars and they both do not agree with each other on how to read English. Go figure.
Take the first word "Hwaet" is thought to mean "What" and by a first English scholar and "Lo" by the second English scholar. Therefore, we have two different opinions.
The next word "we Gard-ena" is thought to mean by one English scholar as "we have heard" and another English scholar as "praise the prowess" - so again we also differ on reading the English correctly?
So"exegesis" for English poems should be easy for English reading people? Right? Sorry wrong. As I showed you for a child like poem written over 40 years ago, even the Author who wrote the poem still finds fascinating new themes from the words written.
So how is a layperson supposed to read the Bible verses as it reads, when the layperson is unlearned in that Ancient Language and we are solely trusting in our translators?
And when we have a passage written in English, how does the simple English person read those words in English?
EGW: "But faith is not sight; faith is not feeling; faith is not reality. “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” To abide in faith is to put aside feeling and selfish desires, to walk humbly with the Lord, to appropriate His promises, and apply them to all occasions, believing that God will work out His own plans and purposes in your heart and life by the sanctification of your character; it is to rely entirely, to trust implicitly, upon the faithfulness of God. If this course is followed, others will see the special fruits of the Spirit manifested in the life and character. {FE 341.3
What is this passage talking about? Until we looked up the passage and investigated certain themes, we did not have a clue. We were unlearned. We are still unlearned.
What does the phrase "to appropriate His promises" mean?
When we read things we cannot fathom, we don't read them. Hence we look for the words we can read and understand, ignoring all the others. This is how our brains work. I do this myself as well. I did not have a clue as to what Ellen White is writing about, and not a clue what this means with faith.
So using fancy words, can anybody out there Exegesis this for us?
The whole passage is talking about faith. So this will give readers a clue?
Do readers want to know where this phrase is written in the Scriptures?
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
The Author considers this a poetry parallel line
So the term "create in me a clean heart" is parallel to the same action of "renew a right spirit within me"
So here we have three parallel statements
"create in me a clean heart"
"renew a right spirit within me"
"to appropriate His promises"
Now what are all these three phrases saying? For they are all saying the same thing, and this is all about faith? So Exegesis is really simple is it? This might explain why such a simple process like faith, is so misunderstood by so many of us?
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
What is this Bible verse talking about? Whose good works are these?
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Now explain these Bible verses further if you can? Use the phrases "
"create in me a clean heart"
"renew a right spirit within me"
"to appropriate His promises"
"renew a right spirit within me"
"to appropriate His promises"
And use the theme "faith as a process", since all these phrases are about faith.
Notice using the terms "imputed and imparted" with faith from our Hebrew English translator:
EGW: "It is the righteousness of Christ, His own unblemished character, that through faith is imparted to all who receive Him as their personal Saviour. {COL 310.3
EGW" By faith Paul appropriated the grace of Christ, and this grace supplied the necessities of his soul. By faith he received the heavenly gift, and imparted it to souls longing for light. This is the experience we need.... Pray for this faith. Strive for it. Believe that God will give it to you.... {HP 57.3}
EGW" The wise virgins had not only an intelligent knowledge of the truth, but through the imparted grace of Jesus Christ, their faith and patience and love constantly increased. Their lamps were replenished by their vital connection with the Light of the world. While the foolish virgins awoke to find their lamps burning dimly, or going out in the darkness, the wise virgins, with their lamps burning brightly, entered the festal hall, and the gates were shut. Greatly rejoicing at the sound of the bridegroom’s voice, they joined the bridal procession. {RH July 20, 1897, par. 4}
EGW: "The faith imparted to us is a working faith. It is not sight, for then it could be no more faith. The love of Jesus in the heart is worth everything to us. We can be patient under pain, and not distress our souls with constant worrying, for Christ is at our right hand to help us in every emergency. We must daily educate ourselves to walk as in the sight of God. We will often be disappointed in our expectations of men, of their piety and religious experience. {Lt96-1892.}
EGW: Believe that the Lord is speaking to you through Sister White. With a stern, determined will, advocate the great and sacred doctrines of the Bible, because you believe them to be truth. The precepts and promises of the Word of God are for you. Lay hold upon them, and your spiritual strength will increase. Arouse your slumbering faith, and walk out into the presence of God through the imparted power of Christ. As you exercise the faith that you have, you will receive greater faith that Christ has pledged Himself to save all who come to Him. {Lt355-1904.6}
EGW: "Without faith, even an angel host could not help. Faith, living faith, exercised in the power of God must be our defense. Faith alone can make us invincible and enabled to stand in the evil day, steadfast, immovable, holding the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end. It is not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts. It is not the faith in our faith that places us as overcomers, but the power imparted us to exercise faith in God. {Lt 136a, 1898, par. 19}
ROB: Do readers understand now the phrases (all saying the same thing)
"create in me a clean heart"
"renew a right spirit within me"
"to appropriate His promises"
"renew a right spirit within me"
"to appropriate His promises"
One could add a fourth
"power imparted to us by faith"
Summary: I am impressed that reading the Bible as it reads in the KJV English, even trusting your translators, is still useful as a tool for discovering truth.
How many understand "believe" means "faith"?
Ro 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
Ga 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Heb 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
So this simple technique is brilliant, "believe" is a "faith concept".
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
So one has to have faith in Jesus, to receive this everlasting living, He is talking about.
Shalom